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Post by blueknight110 on Jun 24, 2013 7:43:58 GMT -5
I cannot stand idiots like him. Just not a team player. Narcissist, egotistical, spoiled.
I hope he gets his ass kicked.
Waaaaa!!!! My hair!!!!! I don't want to cut it!!!!
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Post by jacourt on Jun 24, 2013 7:56:19 GMT -5
You would think they asked him to eat a fish head !
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Post by nannyb on Jun 24, 2013 8:14:41 GMT -5
We discussed this briefly in another thread and I agree with you, blueknight.
The guys and captain were asking him to show that he was a team player.
It wasn't anything permament like a tattoo or a nose ring -- just a haircut.
Hair grows back.
To me, it seemed that he was looking down on the other guys, like they were not dignified enough for him.
I doubt he will last on the Wizard.
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Post by blueknight110 on Jun 24, 2013 8:21:05 GMT -5
We discussed this briefly in another thread and I agree with you, blueknight. The guys and captain were asking him to show that he was a team player. It wasn't anything permament like a tattoo or a nose ring -- just a haircut. Hair grows back. To me, it seemed that he was looking down on the other guys, like they were not dignified enough for him. I doubt he will last on the Wizard. It shows he is a spoiled brat and a narcissist. He has never been a part of a team. Anyone that has played a team sport in HS or any other level knows you just go through with it. Getting a haircut is as tame as it gets. Especially knowing you are on camera and it is a show that everyone is going to see. To sit there and act like that, and not be aware at all at how that will play out further illustrates he is the kind of spoiled idiot that you would love to see get his ass kicked. Anyone with even a little humility sees the value in allowing it to happen and showing you are part of the crew. He does not have that common sense, and it is blatant disrespect. Considering it is not close to something that is tough. Hell remember when someone allowed to get his haircut?  Yeah, people make fun of Tebow, but he always showed to be a team player. This is a perfect example. |
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Post by anitalalouise on Jun 24, 2013 8:29:02 GMT -5
Hmmm...
You know, I thought the greenhorn acted out of line in the last show and should have gotten the mowhawk.
But after reading BlueKnight's post, I actually support him. How much hazing and other damaging things have taken place because of just that sort of attitude?
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Post by blueknight110 on Jun 24, 2013 8:31:26 GMT -5
Hmmm... You know, I thought the greenhorn acted out of line in the last show and should have gotten the mowhawk. But after reading BlueKnight's post, I actually support him. How much hazing and other damaging things have taken place because of just that sort of attitude? You think getting a haircut is damaging? LOL at you. |
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Post by anitalalouise on Jun 24, 2013 8:52:58 GMT -5
No, I think anyone who believes that anyone should just blindly follow along with anything or not be considered a "team player" is a dangerous fool.
A haircut doesn't matter at all.
"Anyone that has played a team sport in HS or any other level knows you just go through with it."
^^Sentiments like that matter a lot though.
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Post by Maribegood on Jun 24, 2013 9:45:29 GMT -5
As one of the two people who voted that Freddie did cross the bullying line, I'll put in my 2 cents. Don't tell me there is no other way to build team spirit than humiliating people, or that Freddie is such a small man with a small ego that he is going to go after someone's livelihood because they would not do what he said for a PRANK. Because that is not the same man who showed such compassion and understanding on the Cornelia Maria when far worse was going on.
blueknight, pushing people to do things they do not want to does not build team spirit, it builds resentment. Saying "I was just following orders" or "I was trying to get along" does not excuse bad behavior. Dane said no. No means no. It's his body and his hair, and therefore his call in choosing how he wants to use them outside his job description. Chopping bait is in the job description, baiting pots is in the job description, as is sorting crab, washing down decks, cooking, and cleaning toilets. There is nothing in the job description that compels any deck hand to alter their bodies, either temporarily or permanently.
Honestly, I found that sequence last week extremely disturbing, doubly so since I have always had such admiration for Freddie.
In that sequence, it was actually Keith and Freddie being the narcissists, not the greenhorn. Look up the psychiatric definition of narcissistic patients. They are the ones who attempt to impose their will on others using their power without any regard for the feelings of others. The greenhorn had no power, and was not trying to impose his will by stopping others from getting a haircut.
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Post by Water Woman on Jun 24, 2013 10:12:06 GMT -5
The behavior on the Wizard was worse than bullying. Abolishing slavery gave everyone the right to autonomy over his/her body. Maybe hair cuts aren't permanent but it doesn't matter. What if it was a tattoo or piercing or prayer to a diety in which he didn't believe? Should he still have gone along? I say absolutely not. As long as he does the job he should be left alone. Keith should fire Freddy for pushing the greenhorn and then should fire himself for instigating it.
By the way, I proudly wear the title of "NOT A TEAM PLAYER" and have little respect for those who are. Nothing worthwhile ever gets done by committee.
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Post by blueknight110 on Jun 24, 2013 10:25:08 GMT -5
The behavior on the Wizard was worse than bullying. Abolishing slavery gave everyone the right to autonomy over his/her body. Maybe hair cuts aren't permanent but it doesn't matter. What if it was a tattoo or piercing or prayer to a diety in which he didn't believe? Should he still have gone along? I say absolutely not. As long as he does the job he should be left alone. Keith should fire Freddy for pushing the greenhorn and then should fire himself for instigating it. By the way, I proudly wear the title of "NOT A TEAM PLAYER" and have little respect for those who are. Nothing worthwhile ever gets done by committee. I totally disagree with this. First of all, bringing up "slavery" is ridiculous. Stop with the over drama. All it was was a haircut and that is the whole point. It was not a tattoo. It was not a piercing. It was not a prayer to a deity. You have made the whole point, but you added a "what if" as though that is the reality. The fact that he would not get his haircut and the fact that it is not a big deal at all, is what this truly all about. It is a damn haircut. It is not slavery. It is not a tattoo. There is nothing permanent. The fact he just refused to go along with it is pathetic. I do not agree however that Freddie should physically assault him in any way. The matriarchal take over of our world is virtually complete as it is. There are simply certain things that do show disrespect and many women do not get it. I know you will never agree with that comment. I get it. |
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Post by anitalalouise on Jun 24, 2013 10:47:21 GMT -5
Wow. Not only idiocy, but sexist idiocy as well.
Nicely done. I'm sure that will change everyone's mind.
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Post by Maribegood on Jun 24, 2013 11:19:19 GMT -5
Allow me to clue you in blueknight. Bodily autonomy is not "matriarchal", it is a HUMAN right. It doesn't matter if a haircut is not permanent, if someone doesn't want to change something on their body, they should not be compelled to do so. What is done to an individual's body is the right of the owner of that body, no one else.
Refusing to go along with the crowd is not pathetic, it is actually pretty brave. People do stupid and ugly things as part of "going along with the crowd" that they would not have the guts to do individually. Hazing can go from funny to destructive very quickly. Just ask those 13 YO boys in Colorado who were sodomized with pencils as part of their team's hazing ritual. Before you argue that hair cutting and sodomy are not the same, contemplate that both these acts start the same way--build "team spirit" by hazing the newest member. Doing silly things as part of a team is fun and builds camaraderie, but not if it involves FORCE. This business with Dane morphed from camaraderie to bullying the minute Freddie threatened his job.
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Post by rosered74 on Jun 24, 2013 12:27:59 GMT -5
after watching last week episode and watching this week preiew, it is so adamantly clear, freddy is bullying Dane. there is no getting around it. how does one go from being an easy going guy on the CM to a douchbag on the Wizard? maybe keith's attitude rubbing off on freddy? i dont know, but that is clear bullying on freddy and in keith's part. curious, did they ask mouse or soper to get their hair cut?
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Post by nannyb on Jun 24, 2013 12:50:40 GMT -5
After reading all of your posts, I can see both sides of the issue.
I thought about it some more, and to me, it wasn't so much his refusal to cut his hair that bothered me as it was his attitude toward the other guys. It looked to me as if he thought they were somehow beneath him, acting silly or primitive. If he had refused, but laughed about it or kidded with the guys, it would have been fine. But he acted superior to them, and too serious. I think his attitude is what set off Freddie and Keith.
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Post by svtubamom on Jun 24, 2013 13:29:59 GMT -5
nannyb, I agree with your comments. I, too, got the impression from Dane that he was just too good to do it. I believe it was his attitude towards them that set them off. When you are on a boat and there is no place to go, it seems it would be best to just go along with it. At least you won't be made miserable or get all of the really grunt jobs. As long as they are out fishing, it seems his hair would have grown back some and then make appropriate changes to the hair style.
We all know how DC loves to edit certain scenes to create drama.
We will have to see what the "fight" with Freddie is all about.
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Post by dovecote on Jun 24, 2013 13:50:21 GMT -5
Actually, during that whole thing, I think that Dane was the only sensible one there. I really hope that he finds another way of making a living. The culture on the Wiz has always been one of horribly bullying greenhorns, which is why so many fail and so few stay or flourish. It's really hard to learn in an atmosphere of constant bullying. It's dangerous too in the potentially fatal conditions they're working in. Keith's bullying of Monty is another constant. Remember Soper, who Keith seems to respect more than his own brother, calling 2 greenhorns 'little girls' and giving them girl's names? I was really upset about that and raised questions about why Soper would want to see young men that way, especially when he is in such a powerful position. It's a sick culture, coming from the top, and I think that Dane is best out of it. The other boats manage to combine milder forms of hazing with fun and love, and that makes all the difference. Just imagine what would have happened to Sunshine if he'd broken the toilet on the Wiz! I remember Freddie wondering if he had bullied the greenhorn who had to be airlifted off - Chris was it? They all scorned him because he was afraid, as I imagine all but a few in the world would be. He seems to have just become absorbed in the Wiz culture, which is a shame. Maybe Dane can find a berth on a more humane boat. Sorry for ranting.  |
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Post by bentwillow on Jun 25, 2013 14:54:10 GMT -5
I don't know about everyone else here but almost all institutions I've worked for have had a 'culture.' Fitting in to the culture becomes necessary if one wishes to be accepted. I am fortunate - I'm a medical nurse and medical nurses have a good deal of compassion and tolerance so my working situation, no matter who has been on the team, has always been more pleasant than not. Being a team player in my culture is absolutely essential. If I want my patients to get help from my team when that is necessary I better be there for every other nurse in a crisis regardless of how stressful that might be for me at the time. In other words, we are all in the same boat.
Taking that cultural understanding to the Wizard (and other crab boats) where every moment can be life or death situation, I'm sure the guys want to develop a toughness in their team players that will serve to keep them all alive and successful. Time and again, we see what happens to crabbers who refuse to carry their share of the load or who refuse to go the extra mile. Asking this kid to cut his hair was probably a test to see if he would go that extra mile. He didn't. That sent a loud message.
I wouldn't work under the conditions present on the Wizard - I doubt that many would. However, the same guys keep coming back season after season so something is working on that boat. I don't understand their culture, but then....I don't have to.
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Post by nannyb on Jun 25, 2013 15:34:08 GMT -5
Perhaps Dane would do better in a job where he is the boss, or one where he works alone.
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Post by Maribegood on Jun 25, 2013 17:18:25 GMT -5
I don't think not getting a haircut can be equated with not carry your share of the load on a crab boat. You noticed Soper and Lenny did not get their hair cut? To me, this was about establishing dominance, not building a team. Team playing is very important in my work environment as well, yet I have never had to buzz my hair to prove I was part of the team or carrying my fair share of the load.
These are men, not dogs, and they are capable of understanding a chain of command without being hit on the nose with a newspaper. It's always this way on the Wizard, dominance through humiliation. From how the captain treats his brother on down.
What works on the Wizard is that there is a lot of money to be made from all the quota Keith leases. These older men have families and some of them are putting kids through college, or like Freddie, supporting extended family. If you are the person that gets to dish the humiliation and make a lot of money, of course you aren't going to leave.
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Post by bentwillow on Jun 25, 2013 18:37:21 GMT -5
All I know is..... if I had been on the Wizard, I would have cut my hair. It's called, taking one for the team - especially since Keith is so superstitious. When you are low man on the totem pole, it is best to pick your battles wisely so that you can fight another day. I think this kid just lost the war.
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Post by nannyb on Jun 25, 2013 19:41:44 GMT -5
I would think that Dane had looked into what life on the Wizard was like before applying for a job. He could have seen that by watching DC. If he didn't like what he learned or saw, he could have applied elsewhere.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Post by Your mom on Jun 26, 2013 0:42:28 GMT -5
Keith :learn to be a man! Just don't stand there and let someone be bullied, your a Disgrace to your family!
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Post by Maribegood on Jun 26, 2013 5:27:45 GMT -5
OK, let's leave Keith's mom out of this. Please pick another handle in the future or sign up to leave comments. Do not disrespect people's parents, no matter how mad you are at them.
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Post by nannyb on Jun 26, 2013 9:23:41 GMT -5
Thanks, mari. We need to keep this board respectful.
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Post by Peer Pressure on Jun 26, 2013 10:21:28 GMT -5
I think that Dane was bullied. If he was doing his work then they should let him make up his own mind. Everyone that says that they would have gotten their haircut to go with the flow, I hope that you are never anywhere and someone pulls out a crackpipe. You got to stand for something or you will fall for anything.
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Post by bentwillow on Jun 26, 2013 11:00:08 GMT -5
I think that Dane was bullied. If he was doing his work then they should let him make up his own mind. Everyone that says that they would have gotten their haircut to go with the flow, I hope that you are never anywhere and someone pulls out a crackpipe. You got to stand for something or you will fall for anything. That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Building team spirit is as old as humankind. In all societies there have been 'rights of passage' that required the young to submit to rituals. According to your philosophy, no one should have to submit to anything of the kind. Maybe that is what is wrong with this present generation. There has been such as emphasis on self-esteem that everyone feels they have the ability to run the show without submitting to the teachings of the last generation. Freddie was inviting this kid into the team. The kid refused. He will be off the ship as soon as Keith makes it to port. He lost his opportunity to learn a trade that could bring big bucks. He will now take his ego and his independence to where?  |
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Post by nannyb on Jun 26, 2013 11:49:03 GMT -5
I noticed that Dane was not shy about talking to the camera. Maybe he wanted his 15 minutes of fame.
Bentwillow, you're right about team spirit. Being a team player is important in any job. You have to get along with the folks you work with. Dane would have never fit on the Wizard.
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Post by blueknight110 on Jun 26, 2013 12:27:21 GMT -5
I could not help but notice that all of the other boat captains and crews all agreed that Dane was clearly in the wrong. Just cannot make the stretch equating this issue to slavery or smoking a crack pipe, or all of these overt examples that are not in any way related to a haircut.
Not even in the least amount. Not in any way, shape or form should any of those examples be made in relation to a haircut.
Then on top of everything, this guy sucker punches Freddie? Sucker punches him?
Turns out I was right about the guy.
Keith has never been my favorite captain. The way he treats his brother, and his ridiculous power trips he gets on annoys me. Also how he treats the cameramen or producers or most greenhorns. I liked it when Johnathon sent him ankles over butt that one year.
Then again, I am a life long fisherman, and I have been around certain hard types my entire life. Yes, I do understand that level of disrespect Tebo had.
I also find it ironic with the picture I showed of the OTHER TEBOW.
Many of you just do not get it.
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Post by lifesabeach on Jun 26, 2013 12:56:04 GMT -5
I will have to add my two cents on this subject. I, also, felt the boy was showing a superiority complex over the other crewmembers. Some of his comments were demeaning whether he got the haircut or not. He made fun of the others for participating in the haircut tradition. In saying this, though, I do feel that Freddie and Keith have made it uncomfortable for the boy to do what he was hired for. There is nothing in the classification of "Greenhorn" that requires his having to get a haircut. Myself, I would not have a problem doing this even with my being a woman. I can bet there were many things said if not done to bring the situation to a head. But Freddie throwing the octopus was way out of line. I have been a fan of Freddie's since the Cornelia Marie and I hope Keith's mentality has not rubbed off on him. I like Keith but he does like to show that he is the Boss.
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Post by DougI on Jun 27, 2013 0:03:01 GMT -5
First time posting, but I have been reading this forum pretty regularly this year after watching the show since the beginning. Frankly, both sides of this debate made me uncomfortable the last two shows. It is clear this Dane kid is a kid who gets off on "individuality." Just note how many times he said "frat boy" or the weirdly mispronounced "FRATearnity". I'd take a guess he grew up blue collar in a college town where he watched the frat douches do stuff like this, probably socialized with a hardcore or metal set, and wrote a lot of poems about being "me". So that "fight the world around me" attitude both makes him perfect for this kind of job, and horrible, if he doesn't figure out which battles to fight. He should have taken the haircut then kicked butt and found a new boat.
That said, what was some pointed hazing and disgust from Freddie turned into threat. He threw the octopus at the greenhorn, threatened him with a life of hell every chance he got, and took a tired and overwhelmed kid to the point where he thought he had no choice but to try to throw with a guy he knew was capable of really hurting him badly with an unsympathetic audience looking on. Freddie went way too far. Ostracize the kid and pack his bags in a couple of days...say thanks, but no thanks. Chalk it up as another failure. But what he subjected the kid to? Even with all the possibility of Disco editing for effect, you can't create nothing. The words were said. The kid claimed he was sure Freddie was going to fight him. And he was scared enough to try to get the advantage in the conflict that he resigned himself to having to deal with. In a lot of ways, Freddie was just another jock ready to kick his butt on campus.
It's a real shame, too, because I really like the character that Disco has created named Freddie. Like I said...the kid should have gotten his hair cut. But he probably thought he was standing up for himself and if he didn't, no one would respect him...like in most instances. He read this situation wrong.
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