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Post by Maribegood on Mar 17, 2014 21:59:10 GMT -5
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Post by Guest1 on Mar 18, 2014 10:34:35 GMT -5
Sounds like they are talking about the CM
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Post by svtubamom on Mar 18, 2014 11:03:13 GMT -5
Sounds like they are talking about the CM Sounds that way to me too. It is a shame that the show we love is causing such hardships on the rest of the fleet. |
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Post by jacourt on Mar 18, 2014 11:59:47 GMT -5
Don't the Wizard and Saga rent quota also? It would seem from the article the only boats that would not have to lease would be those that were in the business for many years. If the assertions made in the article are true than as soon as DC is off the air than the price will go up as those boats won't have DC backing anymore. The boasts that are relying on the Disco check won't survive. Who goes first?  ? |
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jc836
Greenhorn
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Post by jc836 on Mar 18, 2014 14:31:48 GMT -5
Just my pennies: Fact is that Wizard, Time Bandit, Northwestern and several others seen over the past 10 years were fishing during the Derby Days. Therefore, they do have some quota of their own, but it may not be enough overall. Keith has one of the largest boats in the fleet and can justify leasing in order to be profitable enough to do what the boat can do. The Hillstrands and Hansens have a rich heritage based on their fathers. Discovery may be paying part of the operating cost in order to tape, but it is not enough to offset the real cost of fishing. Remember, these boats can and do work multiple fisheries and the permits, etc are not cheap for any of them.
As to Josh Harris and the CM - how he got to do anything with the boat is not yet known to us. We do know that he cannot captain without a learning period to obtain licenses and insurance. Elliot on the other hand has family diretly linked to the Saga so we are told and that may indeed help him with quota. "Jr" Scott Campbell has family involved as well. We are starting to see a passing of the helm to a new generation. Hopefully these younger men will take up the challenge without TV being the overriding influence that it could otherwise be.
Last year the Hillstrands basically put every penny of profit back into the boat - that is a huge risk for anyone. Then again the TB is now in better condition than it had been in for many years.
Maybe one should speculate on how much the captains and crews earn from personal appearances these day and what happens when that goes away.
That is what I see at the moment. Hope King Cove will get into the conversation and help us better understand what is really happening.
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Post by dcsouthernbelle on Mar 18, 2014 15:24:20 GMT -5
Sounds like they are talking about the CM Sounds that way to me too. It is a shame that the show we love is causing such hardships on the rest of the fleet. What about it sounds like they are talking about the CM? (Sorry, I'm new here!  ) |
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Post by dovecote on Mar 18, 2014 15:34:10 GMT -5
Yes, it was during the first season that we saw the last year of Derby days and we learned a lot about the pros and cons and the affects on the boats. The winners, the High-liners, could bring in a huge catch (check out the Northwestern's opie season's deck-load!), Like Edgar said, they went in as Kings. I was furious that Disco didn't show them doing that. But it was very dangerous and the competition was ferocious as the boats were basically racing each other. It's worth watching again as a reminder of the effects of quotas both good and bad and the boats that had to stop fishing. Heartbreaking sometimes. Amazing how much we've learned about an industry that was practically unknown except to the participants. In spite of everything I sometimes have a hissy-fit I'm grateful to Thom Beers. He became a top honcho because of the show's success and deserves it. Didn't mean to ramble on, it's just that there's so much to talk about.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 15:44:02 GMT -5
I don't believe that the handful of boats portrayed on DC is affecting the lease rates of the rest of the fleet.
From what I've been able to learn, the money DC pays to the boats barely covers the cost of having the filming crew aboard.
What's driving the lease rates are boats that are willing to fish for less profit. They have found that a boat cannot survive on tendering alone, and has to make some money in other ways to help pay for overhead.
Fishing crab, even if not for the huge profits they are used to, helps pay for the boat's expenses and keeps the boat and the business afloat.
The CM is probabably one of those boats, but I doubt Deadliest Catch had much to do with it.
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Post by dovecote on Mar 18, 2014 15:44:53 GMT -5
Welcome!dcsouthernbelle. You can easily catch up on all things about the CM controversy by checking out the thread called Discovery vs. the Cornelia Marie. Start at the beginning so you get the whole story. Have fun! |
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Post by sciencer on Mar 18, 2014 17:43:11 GMT -5
Thank you, as usual, King Cove, for contribution. It's nice to have someone 'in the field', as they say.
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Post by Maribegood on Mar 18, 2014 18:25:45 GMT -5
I don't believe that the handful of boats portrayed on DC is affecting the lease rates of the rest of the fleet. From what I've been able to learn, the money DC pays to the boats barely covers the cost of having the filming crew aboard. What's driving the lease rates are boats that are willing to fish for less profit. They have found that a boat cannot survive on tendering alone, and has to make some money in other ways to help pay for overhead. Fishing crab, even if not for the huge profits they are used to, helps pay for the boat's expenses and keeps the boat and the business afloat. The CM is probabably one of those boats, but I doubt Deadliest Catch had much to do with it. I was hoping you would dive into this, kingcove. The premises that 4 or 5 boats would be able to sink the price of quota into the gutter for the other 60 or so in the fleet seemed a bit of a stretch. It's not like those boats would be in any position to fish everybody's outstanding quota if the others refused. Still, it does seem grossly unfair that quota owners take virtually no risks if they only lease and do not fish themselves and reap the lion's share of the reward. I'm sure the rest of the fleet has to be good and tired of the Deadliest Catch, but sounds like they'll still have the same problem when it eventually does go off the air. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 8:58:54 GMT -5
Still, it does seem grossly unfair that quota owners take virtually no risks if they only lease and do not fish themselves and reap the lion's share of the reward. This is the unfortunate side effect of rationalization. It is good for the guys with smaller quotas where it would not be cost effective to fish it themselves,but causes a few big boat owners to sit back and rake in the profits. |
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Post by doder on Mar 20, 2014 20:09:08 GMT -5
Still, it does seem grossly unfair that quota owners take virtually no risks if they only lease and do not fish themselves and reap the lion's share of the reward. This is the unfortunate side effect of rationalization. It is good for the guys with smaller quotas where it would not be cost effective to fish it themselves,but causes a few big boat owners to sit back and rake in the profits. from a little i have read about the subject, most the griping comes from the old deck hands of the derby days. they could make $10,000 to $20,000 in a few weeks and then party their butts off or go back to their "regular" jobs. rationalization has allowed the remaining deck hands to make more but has greatly increase the time to earn the money. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 9:33:38 GMT -5
This is the unfortunate side effect of rationalization. It is good for the guys with smaller quotas where it would not be cost effective to fish it themselves,but causes a few big boat owners to sit back and rake in the profits. from a little i have read about the subject, most the griping comes from the old deck hands of the derby days. they could make $10,000 to $20,000 in a few weeks and then party their butts off or go back to their "regular" jobs. rationalization has allowed the remaining deck hands to make more but has greatly increase the time to earn the money. This is true, but contrary to what many say, there are doing it much safer. The urge to take risks during especially bad weather is greatly reduced, and they usually take a little more time in the workday to sleep |
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Post by crabber on Mar 21, 2014 18:23:41 GMT -5
King Cove please correct me if I am wrong. I thought Cornelia Devlin rented all her quota for a couple of yeas after Phil died. I have read here and other places Keith rents his. Question-did Josh inhert. Phil's quota when he past. Thanks King Cove !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 15:27:24 GMT -5
King Cove please correct me if I am wrong. I thought Cornelia Devlin rented all her quota for a couple of yeas after Phil died. I have read here and other places Keith rents his. Question-did Josh inhert. Phil's quota when he past. Thanks King Cove ! I don't have any knowledge of Ms Devlin's or Phil's quotas. I believe it is public record if someone were to take the time and dig through the NOAA web site and find it. I do know that quota can be passed on through inheritance. I have heard before that the Wizard does not own any quota,only leases it,but I can't say I have first hand knowledge of that either. I do know that a lot of the boats that do have their own quota also lease quota. I know of one boat for sure (not a DC boat)that owns a fair amount of quota,and the crew gets one pay rate for that,and also leases a bit of quota and the crew gets paid less for fishing that. |
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Post by doder on Mar 22, 2014 18:46:46 GMT -5
several years ago i looked it up quota allocations on the noaa site.
phil had earned some crew share quota as captain but sold it to get some owners share quota which has a lien against it.
i seriously doubt if the boys own any quota now.
keith had earned a large amount of crew share quota as captain as well as good amount of owners share quota after he bought the boat.
fyi:
only owners quota can be leased. all crew quota requires the quota owner to be on the boat.
NO boat owns quota. the owner of the boat gets the quota regardless if they still own the boat or not and they can lease to anyone they desire. the sale of a boat and the sale of quota are two different things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 12:49:24 GMT -5
several years ago i looked it up quota allocations on the noaa site. phil had earned some crew share quota as captain but sold it to get some owners share quota which has a lien against it. i seriously doubt if the boys own any quota now. keith had earned a large amount of crew share quota as captain as well as good amount of owners share quota after he bought the boat. fyi: only owners quota can be leased. all crew quota requires the quota owner to be on the boat. NO boat owns quota. the owner of the boat gets the quota regardless if they still own the boat or not and they can lease to anyone they desire. the sale of a boat and the sale of quota are two different things. I believe that crew shares can be leased,and the owner does not have to be on board.I think that was the case originally,but changed over time. I personally know two guys that have small amounts of crew shares they earned as captains,and lease them every year. You are correct that a boat does not own quota.The quota shares were originally issued to owners of boats that had fishing history,and were based on the amount they had caught during specific years. |
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Post by crabber on Mar 25, 2014 18:43:14 GMT -5
Thanks! Do you know where Josh got his quota from ? Just wondering.
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Post by doder on Mar 25, 2014 19:49:44 GMT -5
BBR CVO N 1850236617 1850249037 12421 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
BBR CVO S 1850316108 1850665796 349689 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
BSS CVO N 1852554119 1853471516 917398 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
BSS CVO S 1858425464 1858548633 123170 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
EBT CVO U 1859213756 1859393302 179547 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
SMB CVO N 1860362854 1860389340 26487 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
SMB CVO S 1860532373 1860538317 5945 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
WBT CVO U 4005843452 4006022998 179547 PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES INC PO BOX 287 CLINTON WA 98236 NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA
this what was in phil's name in 2010.
362110 red crab units divided by the red crab pool ratio of 56.5713 crab units per pound equals 6400 pounds of red crab he owned.
1,040,568 opie crab units divided by the opie pool ratio of 16.761 crab units per pound equals 62082 opie crab that phil owned,
this ownership is assuming that NORTHWEST FARM CREDIT SERVICES, PCA did not cancel the lien or repossess the quota.
what quota josh got was leased.
p.s.
crab units never change. only pool ratio changes. the ratios for this year are higher,meaning less crab.
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