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Post by svtubamom on May 6, 2014 15:56:10 GMT -5
Here's what I found out. Jake and Josh currently are the sole owners of the boat. Josh is currently the business manager,and is going to school to get his captain's license. Casey may be buying into the boat. DC was in fact on the boat for opies. Josh was on the boat for opies,and I think I heard that Jake was on also. The boat arrived in King Cove this morning and will be done with herring today. Was Josh on the boat for herring? I heard that Jake was not on the boat. I can say that I am thoroughly shocked with this info King.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 16:53:52 GMT -5
neither Josh or Jake are on for herring
As for who is backing them,or how financing was arranged,I didn't ask.
I can say though that a boat with no quota attached is not worth as much as you might think. It's possible that if they inherited Phil's portion that might have been 15 or 20%,a bank may simply have financed it similar to a mortgage.
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Post by sciencer on May 6, 2014 17:28:38 GMT -5
Then there must have been collateral from someone. Someone with a lot of faith!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 18:05:33 GMT -5
Then there must have been collateral from someone. Someone with a lot of faith! If they inherited 20%,that could have been the down payment, and the boat could be collateral. Income could be proven from tender contracts
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Post by doder on May 6, 2014 18:19:11 GMT -5
Then there must have been collateral from someone. Someone with a lot of faith! If they inherited 20%,that could have been the down payment, and the boat could be collateral. Income could be proven from tender contracts the percentage that phil "owned" had a bank loan against it. hardly enough to justify sending a boat out to harvest without leasing additional quota at 70%-80% dock price for reds. that quota was later re-adsorbed by cornelia marie llc. phil never tendered the boat that was left up to c.m. devlin and/or her son. without quota the price of the boat drops drastically then value it has is as a tender and that is not "cool" enough for josh. hardly good tv filming.
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Post by svtubamom on May 6, 2014 19:12:22 GMT -5
neither Josh or Jake are on for herring As for who is backing them,or how financing was arranged,I didn't ask. I can say though that a boat with no quota attached is not worth as much as you might think. It's possible that if they inherited Phil's portion that might have been 15 or 20%,a bank may simply have financed it similar to a mortgage. I knew the that Cm had no crab quota, but never thought that without it, the boat would not be worth as much. TY King Cove, as I learned something new.
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Post by greatlakesgirl on May 6, 2014 19:43:28 GMT -5
Yes King Cove. Thank you for continuing to bring us some inside info. Your the best
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Post by lonesomerhodes on May 14, 2014 4:46:40 GMT -5
The boat was worth what the Devlin's would take for her. Not a penny more, not a penny less.
We're still talking at least a million for her. Plus, not less, PLUS any existing debt. Those dry dock repairs she underwent just a couple years ago were extensive and expensive. Unlike Keith's Wizard, there is no record of the CM having gone out and made a killing which could erase those costs.
Someone is backing the boys, or Phil had waaaaaaaay more to give as inheritance than any of us would have imagined.
KC - if you know, is it a buyer's or seller's market generally for larger vessels like the CM?
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Post by lonesomerhodes on May 14, 2014 4:58:28 GMT -5
From the Washington State Secretary of State: Governing Persons Title Name Address Member PHIL HARRIS ENTERPRISES, INC , C/O VESSEL MANAGEMENT 4209 21ST AVE W, #306 SEATTLE , WA 98199 Member,Manager HARRIS , JOSHUA G 21520 E LOST LAKE ROAD SNOHOMISH , WA 98296 here's the link: www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?ubi=602258633It is impossible to tell, based on this, if Phil listed Josh years ago, or if this is a new development.
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Post by crabber on May 14, 2014 9:34:27 GMT -5
Just a guess, but Josh & Jake do have two half-siblings and three step-sisters who could have backed them. Grant Harris could also have put up money. In addition there is their mother and maternal grandparents if they are still alive. According to the DC book, Phil used to tender in the summer. I think once he had the first embolism he must have stopped. I had read Jake used to fish all summer on another boat(I think it was the Fierce Allergance but not sure). How much money/property did he leave when he passed and how was is distributed ? That could have made a difference. Josh got a small amount of quota for reds. I do not know who he purchased it from. Maybe Case McManus's father Jim, who was a friend or Cornelia herself if she still owes quota. Just a guess.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2014 11:10:27 GMT -5
We're still talking at least a million for her. What information are you using to make this statement? Look at Dock Street Brokers or anywhere else and tell us how many boats you see anywhere near a million dollars. www.dockstreetbrokers.com/
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Post by anitalalouise on May 14, 2014 14:10:22 GMT -5
It's possible they used the profits from the book to finance the boat. It seems like the book probably sold pretty well.
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Post by sciencer on May 14, 2014 15:05:24 GMT -5
I would be more concerned with who is running the business end of things. If Josh can learn from an experienced group of people, then hopefully he will do well. Wherever the decisionmaking power lies will determine how the CM ultimately does. With an experienced captain and good business management, the CM has the best chance to succeed.
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Post by svtubamom on May 14, 2014 15:46:14 GMT -5
We're still talking at least a million for her. What information are you using to make this statement? Look at Dock Street Brokers or anywhere else and tell us how many boats you see anywhere near a million dollars. www.dockstreetbrokers.com/There were a few that were asking over a million. One had an asking price of 2.5! Overall, most were not in that price range (for the crab boats).
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Post by crabber on May 14, 2014 16:46:11 GMT -5
I have no idea how much Josh & Jake paid for the CM. I was just speculating in terms of possible financial backing to help them purchase the boat. I have no idea where/who they purchased the quota to fish reds from. Just speculating with my opinion. Sorry if i misled anyone.
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Post by lonesomerhodes on May 17, 2014 3:59:45 GMT -5
We're still talking at least a million for her. What information are you using to make this statement? Look at Dock Street Brokers or anywhere else and tell us how many boats you see anywhere near a million dollars. www.dockstreetbrokers.com/Here are some numbers I heard on DC... Phil said the CM racked up $800K in repair costs in what turned out to be the last dry dock he experienced. Keith said he went from almost even with the world to almost $3 million in debt after the refitting and new engine he had put in the Wizard a few years ago. A Hillstrand was all pissed because despite the fixes made, the TB had to go in for even more, which, he said, amounted to a total of $1.4 million. They went on and on about how tough the new debt was on them during that first season after repair. The Wizard and TB are smaller than the CM. Why on earth would these guys invest more in repair than the boats are worth? Why would the Devlins do the same with the CM? If this was all Disco baloney, fine. But, I didn't just pull numbers out my ballast.
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Post by doder on May 17, 2014 4:38:13 GMT -5
What information are you using to make this statement? Look at Dock Street Brokers or anywhere else and tell us how many boats you see anywhere near a million dollars. www.dockstreetbrokers.com/Here are some numbers I heard on DC... Phil said the CM racked up $800K in repair costs in what turned out to be the last dry dock he experienced. Keith said he went from almost even with the world to almost $3 million in debt after the refitting and new engine he had put in the Wizard a few years ago. A Hillstrand was all pissed because despite the fixes made, the TB had to go in for even more, which, he said, amounted to a total of $1.4 million. They went on and on about how tough the new debt was on them during that first season after repair. The Wizard and TB are smaller than the CM. Why on earth would these guys invest more in repair than the boats are worth? Why would the Devlins do the same with the CM? If this was all Disco baloney, fine. But, I didn't just pull numbers out my ballast. the tb is 108 ft. long while cm is 127 ft. long. they are both in the same weight class,under 200 tons. the wizard is 155 ft. long and over 300 tons. the saga's real owner paid over $2 mil. for her and had to overhaul both main engines during her first crab season. paying over a million bucks for a refit or overhaul is not a big deal when you consider they can make between $1 and $2 mil. for tendering salmon in just one season.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2014 10:13:56 GMT -5
What information are you using to make this statement? Look at Dock Street Brokers or anywhere else and tell us how many boats you see anywhere near a million dollars. www.dockstreetbrokers.com/Here are some numbers I heard on DC... Phil said the CM racked up $800K in repair costs in what turned out to be the last dry dock he experienced. Keith said he went from almost even with the world to almost $3 million in debt after the refitting and new engine he had put in the Wizard a few years ago. A Hillstrand was all pissed because despite the fixes made, the TB had to go in for even more, which, he said, amounted to a total of $1.4 million. They went on and on about how tough the new debt was on them during that first season after repair. The Wizard and TB are smaller than the CM. Why on earth would these guys invest more in repair than the boats are worth? Why would the Devlins do the same with the CM? If this was all Disco baloney, fine. But, I didn't just pull numbers out my ballast. The CM still had quota attached at the time and the other boats you mention I believe have quota attached. That adds a lot of value to a boat. Plus I believe the figures quoted to be grossly inflated.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2014 10:20:07 GMT -5
Here are some numbers I heard on DC... Phil said the CM racked up $800K in repair costs in what turned out to be the last dry dock he experienced. Keith said he went from almost even with the world to almost $3 million in debt after the refitting and new engine he had put in the Wizard a few years ago. A Hillstrand was all pissed because despite the fixes made, the TB had to go in for even more, which, he said, amounted to a total of $1.4 million. They went on and on about how tough the new debt was on them during that first season after repair. The Wizard and TB are smaller than the CM. Why on earth would these guys invest more in repair than the boats are worth? Why would the Devlins do the same with the CM? If this was all Disco baloney, fine. But, I didn't just pull numbers out my ballast. the tb is 108 ft. long while cm is 127 ft. long. they are both in the same weight class,under 200 tons. the wizard is 155 ft. long and over 300 tons. the saga's real owner paid over $2 mil. for her and had to overhaul both main engines during her first crab season. paying over a million bucks for a refit or overhaul is not a big deal when you consider they can make between $1 and $2 mil. for tendering salmon in just one season. The average tender the size of the CM earns about around 3500-4000 dollars a day, and the company usually pays for all the fuel used. Skipper and 3-4 person crew are paid out of this daily rate. Tender contracts rarely go more than 45 days,and are usually closer to 30 days.Not anywhere close to a million dollars for a salmon season.
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Post by lonesomerhodes on May 18, 2014 0:00:03 GMT -5
Thanks again, KC.
Your info is very much appreciated!
Would you be willing to tell us how crew wages for Reds is usually done?
Does every man take full risk if the season is a loss for a given F/V? Is there typically base pay that a man gets no matter what? Is there a standard/typical amount for such? How are shares created? Would, for example, a deck boss be given more than one share over a basic crewman? I know greenhorns get a lesser share. Are contracts based on X tonnage of crab harvested? A percentage of the quota?
Any insight you may offer would be awesome! Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 11:50:33 GMT -5
Thanks again, KC. Your info is very much appreciated! Would you be willing to tell us how crew wages for Reds is usually done? Does every man take full risk if the season is a loss for a given F/V? Is there typically base pay that a man gets no matter what? Is there a standard/typical amount for such? How are shares created? Would, for example, a deck boss be given more than one share over a basic crewman? I know greenhorns get a lesser share. Are contracts based on X tonnage of crab harvested? A percentage of the quota? Any insight you may offer would be awesome! Thank you.
For tendering generally a crewmember gets a daily rate that comes out of the tender's daily rate. Generally 100-200 dollars a day.Skippers 300-500 a day.
For crab a crewmember generally gets a percentage of the gross earnings of the boat, minus a percentage of the cost of fuel, bait and food.The fuel,bait and food costs vary depending on the boat. Each boat may have different terms, and they often sign an actual contract with the crewmwmbers.
A full crew share can be 5%-8%(more or less).The rates vary boat to boat, often depending on crew size. A skipper,if he is not an owner, may be around 15% Greenhorn is usually a half share.
The one king crab season I fished( seems like a hundred years ago) a full share with a three man crew on deck was 8%,minus 8% of the groceries. I signed on for half share(4%) and was given 3/4 share at the end of the season based on my performance. I was offered a full share for the next opie season,but turned it down.
It's rare these days that a boat doesn't catch any crab, but those that depend on a percentage can go home with nothing, or even owing the boat money if no crab is caught
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Post by greatlakesgirl on Jun 1, 2014 10:23:06 GMT -5
Devilstatoo, how about the CM? Are the Harris brothers sole owner? There has been much speculation round these parts.
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Post by devilstattoo on Jun 3, 2014 23:40:49 GMT -5
I'm afraid I don't have any percentage numbers or definitive evidence. However I've been told by two sources that Trident Seafoods has a stake in the boat, which is why Casey McManus is the Captain. Just more rumor and speculation, sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 10:17:12 GMT -5
I'm afraid I don't have any percentage numbers or definitive evidence. However I've been told by two sources that Trident Seafoods has a stake in the boat, which is why Casey McManus is the Captain. Just more rumor and speculation, sorry! It would seem to me that if Trident owned a piece of the CM, it would be tendering salmon for Trident. I know for a fact that it is not tendering for Trident. The CM crew flew into King Cove two days ago. Casey said yesterday that Josh is on the boat now.
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Post by anitalalouise on Jun 4, 2014 14:17:43 GMT -5
The insurance issue has nothing to do with where. It only deals with yes or no: Is Elliott an addict? Licensing and criminality may vary as to location and time of use, though. It would be very interesting to look at any applications for insurance he may have made. Did he reveal his past cocaine abuse? Or any substance abuse, including alcohol? This is just silly. Insurance has nothing to do with your addiction status, it has to do with actions and probabilities. If you have been convicted of doing something while drunk, such as driving a motor vehicle, it would affect your insurance. Whether you are an addict is neither here nor there. How would it be applied? Unless you have a TV show, how would anyone know you were an addict? And if you were sober, you would still be an addict, but not any riskier that anyone else.
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Post by greatlakesgirl on Jun 4, 2014 17:17:21 GMT -5
I'm afraid I don't have any percentage numbers or definitive evidence. However I've been told by two sources that Trident Seafoods has a stake in the boat, which is why Casey McManus is the Captain. Just more rumor and speculation, sorry! It would seem to me that if Trident owned a piece of the CM, it would be tendering salmon for Trident. I know for a fact that it is not tendering for Trident. The CM crew flew into King Cove two days ago. Casey said yesterday that Josh is on the boat now. It's nice to hear Josh is on the boat for tendering, with NO camera crew.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 18:43:19 GMT -5
It's nice to hear Josh is on the boat for tendering, with NO camera crew. Just confirmed Josh is here when I saw him on the dock and shook his hand when Casey introduced him to me. No cameras!
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Post by anitalalouise on Jun 4, 2014 18:51:13 GMT -5
Maybe he will become a fisherman after all.
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Post by greatlakesgirl on Jun 4, 2014 20:44:14 GMT -5
It's nice to hear Josh is on the boat for tendering, with NO camera crew. Just confirmed Josh is here when I saw him on the dock and shook his hand when Casey introduced him to me. No cameras! I'm no Josh fan but that's very cool kingcove! He better have been nice to you!
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Post by svtubamom on Jun 5, 2014 7:44:48 GMT -5
I am glad to hear that Josh is on the boat and no cameras. That is the step we have been hoping for.
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