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Post by Maribegood on Jul 5, 2013 14:45:46 GMT -5
nannyb, Keith threatened Dane's life. He said once he was off the boat, he would not control the crew. This is not the first time Keith has been violent or threatened someone. If your commanding officer threatens to let your fellow soldiers or former fellow soldiers kill you, it is a court marshall offense in the US Armed Services.
bluenight, every few years I go to two cemeteries that have dozens of grave markers for merchant mariners who died at sea under horrible conditions, sinking, fire, rollovers. No bodies. Some of them are my family. So while I may be watching this show from my air conditioned living room, I am not completely oblivious to the customs and traditions of men who work at sea. Nor am I oblivious to the impacts this type of work has on family life. So speaking only for myself, I watch this show because I have tremedous respect for the hardships of those who go down to the sea in ships. Even with that, I still think Freddie acted horribly and Keith as the captain even worse by allowing that situation to escalate.
Just because most of us have not been on a crab boat, doesn't mean we can't possibly have an opinion about behavior. No one here is telling a captain where to set his pots.
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Post by blueknight110 on Jul 5, 2013 15:40:09 GMT -5
nannyb, Keith threatened Dane's life. He said once he was off the boat, he would not control the crew. This is not the first time Keith has been violent or threatened someone. If your commanding officer threatens to let your fellow soldiers or former fellow soldiers kill you, it is a court marshall offense in the US Armed Services. bluenight, every few years I go to two cemeteries that have dozens of grave markers for merchant mariners who died at sea under horrible conditions, sinking, fire, rollovers. No bodies. Some of them are my family. So while I may be watching this show from my air conditioned living room, I am not completely oblivious to the customs and traditions of men who work at sea. Nor am I oblivious to the impacts this type of work has on family life. So speaking only for myself, I watch this show because I have tremedous respect for the hardships of those who go down to the sea in ships. Even with that, I still think Freddie acted horribly and Keith as the captain even worse by allowing that situation to escalate. Just because most of us have not been on a crab boat, doesn't mean we can't possibly have an opinion about behavior. No one here is telling a captain where to set his pots. This is all well and good, and there was no reason to doubt you care or cared about the well being of others. Especially those lost forever. Do not confuse that, with understanding the importance of what I am saying in regards to these "hazing" rituals or rites of passages for greenhorns. Again, it is more than superstition and it is crucial in ways that many do not understand. Can they go over the top? Yes, they can. They often do. The question often times is where did it go wrong. I have acknowledged over and over that Keith and Freddy did go over the top. However, this is not about whether or not they went over the top. I am talking about where it went wrong in the first place, and it was not about Freddy and Keith. It was about a kid that called the whole ritual frat stuff. He disrespected the whole notion. Him getting a haircut is not in any way something overt to where it wounds or scars a person for life. It was not even hazing since the whole boat including the captain did it. Combine that with them them not fishing well, and you have a recipe for a very bad situation that could have been totally avoided, if the kid did not have so much pride that he would not allow himself to be a part of that. His hair was not this long hair where he had been growing it for years. He already gets hair cuts on a regular basis. I am sorry, this is what this is about, and the whole situation stemmed from that. These are hard men. Proud men. These guys are not sophisticated people. They are not cultured, and I am guessing they do not read poetry and sip chardonnay. I say all of that cause it is necessary for you to understand how by him not getting the haircut, how they see that as utter disrespect. Once that happens, and the manner in the way he carried on and would not give in, even when he saw the distractions it was causing tells me all I need to know about Tebo. He could have easily alleviated it with a simple haircut and he chose the path of pride. Period.
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Post by greatlakesgirl on Jul 5, 2013 16:27:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but most of the crew commented on the fact that Dane appeared to have a holier than thou attitude right from the airport. So here is this strange kid coming to theyre "home" and group, rubbing them all the wrong way. Gotta believe they were looking for a way pop his bubble a bit.
I asked a friend who was special forces in the military, his opinion on the subject. He said yes hazing does indeed still occur there and any brotherhood that's worth anything would expect a newcomer to the group to earn respect by showing it first and doing what your told.
If one of my sons were to get a job crabbing,(God forbid) I would advise him to think of it as bootcamp, shut up, suck it up and if you meet theyre standards at the end of the trip maybe they will look at you as a part of the "family" hence making daily living a little easier.
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Post by nannyb on Jul 5, 2013 16:47:50 GMT -5
I thought that Keith told Dane that he couldn't control the crew off the boat as a warning to Dane to just walk away and get on with his life. Maybe Keith thought the Dane might try to start something after he got off the boat.
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Post by JT on Jul 5, 2013 17:01:52 GMT -5
Whatever...It's almost comical to see some people justify the behavior of "Capt Keith" and his crew. Any respect (wasn't much to begin with) I had for these guys went down the toilet. Frankly I couldn't careless what happens to them when the show is ultimately canceled.
To Capt Keith, if you ever displayed that attitude on one of my people at my business I'D FIRE YOU ON THE SPOT! You're not some famous person, you're on a semi-relality show and when the cameras are gone for good, it's back to your usual life. So go ahead and put up your big-boy attitude for the camera's, but karma has a way to come back.
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Post by blueknight110 on Jul 5, 2013 17:26:08 GMT -5
Whatever...It's almost comical to see some people justify the behavior of "Capt Keith" and his crew. Any respect (wasn't much to begin with) I had for these guys went down the toilet. Frankly I couldn't careless what happens to them when the show is ultimately canceled. To Capt Keith, if you ever displayed that attitude on one of my people at my business I'D FIRE YOU ON THE SPOT! You're not some famous person, you're on a semi-relality show and when the cameras are gone for good, it's back to your usual life. So go ahead and put up your big-boy attitude for the camera's, but karma has a way to come back. Do yourself a favor. Do not watch it anymore. That way you do not need to be so mentally tortured. Keith is an idiot in a lot of ways, but boat captains are not given those positions. I get it, you do not get it. Welcome to caveman world. Perhaps you would be more comfortable watching Lifetime or OWN. It seems to appeal to those delicate sensibilities you apparently have.
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Post by Maribegood on Jul 5, 2013 17:26:58 GMT -5
blueknight, I will cop to occasionally reading poetry but I despise Chardonnay.
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Post by junebuggyz on Jul 5, 2013 18:14:57 GMT -5
Very nice but the facebook page and DSC site ( fan feedback) are not supporting Keith or the Wizard on this. Both you and anyone else can not like it but the fact remains the majority of fans disagree. Have a great 4th In the U.S. of A we all seem to be under the impression that the majority is right. I could care what the folks on facebook saw about this issue. I agree with Bluenight. We landlubbers have no idea what rituals routinely take place on fishing boats. The program isn't called 'Deadliest Catch' for nothing. Only the toughest make it on the high seas so the behavior of these fisherman is going to differ from the general population. It would seem necessary that the strength and resolve of each man has to be tested by the crew in order to determine whether they are going to work as a team or cave. Dane failed. I don't agree with the tactics, but I do understand the intent. It seems that the armed forces also employ such testing - but no one seems to object about that. Agreed. According to my neighbor's son, boot camp is still hell, and hazing is rampant.
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Post by anitalalouise on Jul 5, 2013 18:26:08 GMT -5
Again though, if hazing and the threat of violence are such necessary components of creating a crew on a crab boat, why aren't all the boats doing it? If this is such a needed component, why is it just the Wizard?
And hazing might be rampant in the armed services, but so apparently is raping of females. So is this just a way to build team spirit too? Is it actually affective, or does it just lead to other, more violent behavior which is then just passed off as all in good fun and building team spirit?
Dame was probably not the sort of guy you want on a crab boat. Dame didn't hire himself though. Keith did that. If he was a bad worker, then the rest of the crew probably shouldn't have missed his work out on the deck. They did.
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Post by junebuggyz on Jul 5, 2013 18:29:23 GMT -5
Again though, if hazing and the threat of violence are such necessary components of creating a crew on a crab boat, why aren't all the boats doing it? If this is such a needed component, why is it just the Wizard? And hazing might be rampant in the armed services, but so apparently is raping of females. So is this just a way to build team spirit too? Is it actually affective, or does it just lead to other, more violent behavior which is then just passed off as all in good fun and building team spirit? Dame was probably not the sort of guy you want on a crab boat. Dame didn't hire himself though. Keith did that. If he was a bad worker, then the rest of the crew probably shouldn't have missed his work out on the deck. They did. I'd like to know what the other boats Dame worked on thought of him. Lenny said there was an instant dislike at the airport, I wonder if the other crews had the same issue. Also, Dane said he had heard Keith was a d&^k, so why would he go to work for him?
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Post by anitalalouise on Jul 5, 2013 18:32:03 GMT -5
If they didn't like him the minute he got off the plane though, why didn't they just turn him around right there?
I don't think he ever worked on a crab boat before. Keith said something about New Orleans or something like that, so maybe he was a shrimper.
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Post by junebuggyz on Jul 5, 2013 18:37:26 GMT -5
I think it was Texas...and didn't Dane say he had 3 years experience, or was that Sunshine?
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Post by blueknight110 on Jul 5, 2013 18:54:30 GMT -5
Again though, if hazing and the threat of violence are such necessary components of creating a crew on a crab boat, why aren't all the boats doing it? If this is such a needed component, why is it just the Wizard? And hazing might be rampant in the armed services, but so apparently is raping of females. So is this just a way to build team spirit too? Is it actually affective, or does it just lead to other, more violent behavior which is then just passed off as all in good fun and building team spirit? Dame was probably not the sort of guy you want on a crab boat. Dame didn't hire himself though. Keith did that. If he was a bad worker, then the rest of the crew probably shouldn't have missed his work out on the deck. They did. How did raping of females get into this discussion? What is with all of the high drama in order to project a weak point? First of all, getting the haircut was not hazing. Since the whole boat was doing it, including the captain. Hazing is when they pick on the greenhorn. In fact up until that point, they really went easy on him. Far easier on him than the NW did to sunshine. Sunshine did it with a smile. Guess what? He earned their respect cause he took their best. Jake Anderson also went through hazing. EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM HAVE WENT THROUGH. You do not get it, and you have the audacity to bring up female rape? I will say it again. The haircut was NOT HAZING. The kid already gets hair cuts on a regular basis. This was nothing. It was a golden opportunity to endear himself to the crew. They all did it, and he did not. You do not get it that that is a big insult. HUGE.
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Post by pittpanth99 on Jul 5, 2013 19:22:28 GMT -5
They did not all get haircuts. Mouse, Lenny and Soper did not. I wonder why? They were never even asked, I wonder why? Could it be they don't believe in the superstition and if pushed they would have pushed back. Dane was new, they thought he could be pushed, he stood his ground. Bravo Dane.
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Post by theboz on Jul 5, 2013 19:22:54 GMT -5
If they didn't like him the minute he got off the plane though, why didn't they just turn him around right there? I don't think he ever worked on a crab boat before. Keith said something about New Orleans or something like that, so maybe he was a shrimper. It takes up to week to get a guy signed up, checked out, drug tested, and flown to Dutch. Thats a lot of downtime for a boat to wait for a guy. Dane Tebo's bio on the DSC site says this about him: "For the past three years, Dane has fished cod, salmon and shrimp but never for Opilio crab in the Bering Sea. Hoping to prove himself this season, Dane is seeking to secure a permanent spot on a boat year-round and looks forward to this opportunity.Fans of Deadliest Catch know that Captain Keith hasn’t had the best of luck with newcomers on board the Wizard. With a stern captain and a hardcore experienced crew, Dane will need a little magic to help him survive."
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Post by anitalalouise on Jul 5, 2013 20:32:22 GMT -5
Again though, if hazing and the threat of violence are such necessary components of creating a crew on a crab boat, why aren't all the boats doing it? If this is such a needed component, why is it just the Wizard? And hazing might be rampant in the armed services, but so apparently is raping of females. So is this just a way to build team spirit too? Is it actually affective, or does it just lead to other, more violent behavior which is then just passed off as all in good fun and building team spirit? Dame was probably not the sort of guy you want on a crab boat. Dame didn't hire himself though. Keith did that. If he was a bad worker, then the rest of the crew probably shouldn't have missed his work out on the deck. They did. How did raping of females get into this discussion? What is with all of the high drama in order to project a weak point? First of all, getting the haircut was not hazing. Since the whole boat was doing it, including the captain. Hazing is when they pick on the greenhorn. In fact up until that point, they really went easy on him. Far easier on him than the NW did to sunshine. Sunshine did it with a smile. Guess what? He earned their respect cause he took their best. Jake Anderson also went through hazing. EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM HAVE WENT THROUGH. You do not get it, and you have the audacity to bring up female rape? I will say it again. The haircut was NOT HAZING. The kid already gets hair cuts on a regular basis. This was nothing. It was a golden opportunity to endear himself to the crew. They all did it, and he did not. You do not get it that that is a big insult. HUGE. Raping female soldiers is all part of the hazing rituals. In fact, even male soldiers are occasionally raped as part of hazing. More of that team building that we "just don't get". And no one has said the haircut was hazing. It was everything after that. Also, the whole boat was NOT doing it. Jake Anderson never went through hazing. Sunshine was not hazed. Please point out one single threat to Sunshine's life, or anything close to that?
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Post by bentwillow on Jul 5, 2013 21:01:10 GMT -5
Again though, if hazing and the threat of violence are such necessary components of creating a crew on a crab boat, why aren't all the boats doing it? If this is such a needed component, why is it just the Wizard? And hazing might be rampant in the armed services, but so apparently is raping of females. So is this just a way to build team spirit too? Is it actually affective, or does it just lead to other, more violent behavior which is then just passed off as all in good fun and building team spirit? Dame was probably not the sort of guy you want on a crab boat. Dame didn't hire himself though. Keith did that. If he was a bad worker, then the rest of the crew probably shouldn't have missed his work out on the deck. They did. Heavens, I wasn't referring to hazing or rape. It is perfectly acceptable to the general public and the military recruits that their hair gets chopped to almost nothing. Then, we all have seen how recruits are made to endure long marches, screaming sargents and lots of punishment if they don't perform to standards. To me, the hell that greenhorns have to endure on any boat matches what the army, navy and airforce dishes out every day.
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Post by theboz on Jul 5, 2013 21:15:18 GMT -5
There is a difference between a GH and the "New Guy".
If you're getting a full share, you're not really a GH. The only reason ANY of these boats even run a GH is because of the show. There are hundreds of 10+yr veterans that would fly themselves to Dutch just to be on the show.
With that said, what everyone saw was a real glimpse into the life of a fisherman. If your Dad was a fisherman, so help you... I think if you ask any Captain in the fleet do you want your kids to follow in your footsteps, they'd all say no; yet, it runs in the blood. Rewind in your mind all the episodes where these skippers speak of their Fathers, and what they were like. The captains that everyone likes the most, probably had the worst fathers.
The crab doesn't fall far from the pot.
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Post by BullyWarrior on Jul 6, 2013 16:18:39 GMT -5
Worst than Freddy's action is Captain Keith allowance and support of this. I am boycotting this show because of Keith. He is a small man and a coward. He is no leader and only moronic oafs surround him. Pray both he and Freddy get theirs.
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Post by FED UP on Jul 6, 2013 16:43:39 GMT -5
Nannyb, I'm glad you ARE NOT my kids Grandma, you give horrible advise and your attitude as to what happened to Dane is horrible. Just imagine if that was your Grandson being assulted like that!!!! Shame,shame
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Post by blueknight110 on Jul 6, 2013 16:44:48 GMT -5
Worst than Freddy's action is Captain Keith allowance and support of this. I am boycotting this show because of Keith. He is a small man and a coward. He is no leader and only moronic oafs surround him. Pray both he and Freddy get theirs. Is your choice in username an irony of some kind? Where you are the actual opposite of what you name yourself? I am thoroughly confused. Then again, I am really not.
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Post by bentwillow on Jul 6, 2013 16:54:50 GMT -5
Nannyb, I'm glad you ARE NOT my kids Grandma, you give horrible advise and your attitude as to what happened to Dane is horrible. Just imagine if that was your Grandson being assulted like that!!!! Shame,shame I just watched the episode where Dane assaulted Freddie. Seems as though you have your assauters mixed up. Dane wasn't assaulted. Freddie was.
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Post by Maribegood on Jul 6, 2013 17:01:09 GMT -5
How old are you, FED UP? Sit down and behave, and learn how to make your case without personal attacks against your oponent.
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Post by theboz on Jul 6, 2013 17:37:20 GMT -5
I knew the second I saw the show this would be a hot topic. I haven't felt compelled in 9yrs to type anything whatsoever regarding this show until now. I'm glad I found this little forum, and I'm glad this particular incident was shown correctly.
Most greenhorns break, and can't complete their contract, and this is by design. I'm proud that DSC decided to show this ugly part of the job, as it IS real. I've said it before, but I don't want a GH to break in the middle of an emergency, I want him to break 2 days before we're scheduled to offload, on his 1st trip.
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Post by nannyb on Jul 6, 2013 17:37:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the laugh, FED UP.
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Post by bentwillow on Jul 6, 2013 18:13:33 GMT -5
I knew the second I saw the show this would be a hot topic. I haven't felt compelled in 9yrs to type anything whatsoever regarding this show until now. I'm glad I found this little forum, and I'm glad this particular incident was shown correctly. Most greenhorns break, and can't complete their contract, and this is by design. I'm proud that DSC decided to show this ugly part of the job, as it IS real. I've said it before, but I don't want a GH to break in the middle of an emergency, I want him to break 2 days before we're scheduled to offload, on his 1st trip. Point very well made,'theboz'. What you have said really makes sense to me.
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Post by theboz on Jul 6, 2013 18:13:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the laugh, FED UP. nannyb, you could be a Grandma to my daughters anytime. I like the cut of your jib.
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Post by sciencer on Jul 6, 2013 18:26:20 GMT -5
Thanks theboz...does anyone remember Moi? He couldn't keep up, lied about it and got it Keith's face. I remember him getting yelled at a lot, but at least it didn't wind up in violence.
Do they really only use GHs for the show? I wondered what happened to the crews of the boats squeezed out by rationalization. Did those boats go to other fisheries?
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Post by theboz on Jul 6, 2013 18:50:50 GMT -5
Thanks theboz...does anyone remember Moi? He couldn't keep up, lied about it and got it Keith's face. I remember him getting yelled at a lot, but at least it didn't wind up in violence. Do they really only use GHs for the show? I wondered what happened to the crews of the boats squeezed out by rationalization. Did those boats go to other fisheries? The are only 2 reasons to use a GH: 1. You cannot find a good deckhand (the industry is saturated with crab-fisherman without boats) 2. or the boat prefers to absorb the other 1/2 share the GH isn't getting, as a way to increase profits. This path almost never pays out however, as you're gambling on no-one getting hurt, and the fishing to be easy (which it never is). I guess there are 3 reasons: 3. DSC wants to increase the tension on the boat a bit.
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Post by crabber on Jul 6, 2013 20:21:03 GMT -5
Freddy and Keith were both bullies. I hope Freddy does not go back to the CM. Makes me think Jake and Josh may not have been bad as greenhorns. Very few seem to make it no matter what boat they are on but treating them like crap does not help. Keith has always been like that with his greenhorns. You would think by know everyone would know not to work on the Wizard. I think when Freddy was on the CM he, Jake and Josh were the only ones to get the mohawk.
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