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Post by Maribegood on Aug 18, 2013 14:21:34 GMT -5
No problem, ladies. I really dislike it when people are on a board for the sole purpose of causing trouble.
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Post by dovecote on Aug 18, 2013 15:03:59 GMT -5
I had just deleted him in my list, so all that came up was Post Deleted. Not an overall remedy but at least I don't have to deal with it.
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Post by MyThoughts on Nov 6, 2013 14:59:32 GMT -5
nannyb, Keith threatened Dane's life. He said once he was off the boat, he would not control the crew. This is not the first time Keith has been violent or threatened someone. If your commanding officer threatens to let your fellow soldiers or former fellow soldiers kill you, it is a court marshall offense in the US Armed Services. bluenight, every few years I go to two cemeteries that have dozens of grave markers for merchant mariners who died at sea under horrible conditions, sinking, fire, rollovers. No bodies. Some of them are my family. So while I may be watching this show from my air conditioned living room, I am not completely oblivious to the customs and traditions of men who work at sea. Nor am I oblivious to the impacts this type of work has on family life. So speaking only for myself, I watch this show because I have tremedous respect for the hardships of those who go down to the sea in ships. Even with that, I still think Freddie acted horribly and Keith as the captain even worse by allowing that situation to escalate. Just because most of us have not been on a crab boat, doesn't mean we can't possibly have an opinion about behavior. No one here is telling a captain where to set his pots. This is all well and good, and there was no reason to doubt you care or cared about the well being of others. Especially those lost forever. Do not confuse that, with understanding the importance of what I am saying in regards to these "hazing" rituals or rites of passages for greenhorns. Again, it is more than superstition and it is crucial in ways that many do not understand. Can they go over the top? Yes, they can. They often do. The question often times is where did it go wrong. I have acknowledged over and over that Keith and Freddy did go over the top. However, this is not about whether or not they went over the top. I am talking about where it went wrong in the first place, and it was not about Freddy and Keith. It was about a kid that called the whole ritual frat stuff. He disrespected the whole notion. Him getting a haircut is not in any way something overt to where it wounds or scars a person for life. It was not even hazing since the whole boat including the captain did it. Combine that with them them not fishing well, and you have a recipe for a very bad situation that could have been totally avoided, if the kid did not have so much pride that he would not allow himself to be a part of that. His hair was not this long hair where he had been growing it for years. He already gets hair cuts on a regular basis. I am sorry, this is what this is about, and the whole situation stemmed from that. These are hard men. Proud men. These guys are not sophisticated people. They are not cultured, and I am guessing they do not read poetry and sip chardonnay. I say all of that cause it is necessary for you to understand how by him not getting the haircut, how they see that as utter disrespect. Once that happens, and the manner in the way he carried on and would not give in, even when he saw the distractions it was causing tells me all I need to know about Tebo. He could have easily alleviated it with a simple haircut and he chose the path of pride. Period. Hi! I just could not be commenting to the blueknight110 and Maribegood thoughts because after seeing this "bullying of the Dane" Deadliest Catch episodes, I was so angry that it was hard to get sleep. I need to write down my thoughts even if no one gives a damn. To Maribegood: I agree that Keith was threatening Dane's LIFE when he said that he could not control his crew on the land phrase. It is like Keith would have said to Dane: "the only thing because MY crew (and I) have not yet killed you is that I do not allow it to happen on the boat". In addition, I consider that Freddy threatened Dane's LIFE as well. Maybe not purposefully but still the aggressive behavior of Freddy could have been interpreted as a threat of life. Freddy said something like "I will drop you" or "put you in the ground" with the VERY aggressive context and body-language. Also, aggressive throw of the octopus towards Dane was like declaring a war or something. Of course the war was already began at the moment but still Freddy would not probably have been minded if the octopus would have been sharp knife... Freddy seems to be aggressive by nature and possibly mentally unstable which is why many Wizard's crew members are actually afraid of him. Keith said to camera, for instance, If I was a greenhorn and Freddy asked to me to do something, the only question would be "When, Sir"? To blueknight110: I'm afraid to admit that things were very sour right after the haircut scene. Sad but true. Remember when Dane said to Freddy that he will not get the haircut? Freddy took for granted that the greenhorn will be submissively accept to the mohawk. When Freddy realized that his will is not going to be obeyed, he reacted with rage and threats. It was not like "FU, stupid greenhorn". It was like "I will assault to you and you might not survive alive" kind of a threat. Remember when Dane said to Keith that he will not get the haircut? At first, Keith was hopeful and quite a polite when he asked to Dane about the haircut. When the rejection happened, Keith turned angry and he almost cried when backing off from Dane. Almost like Keith had just lost his son. He was so devastated. However, Keith did not threat Dane at this scene. Did Lenny and Mouse take a Mohawk? I hardly think so. This will cut "the wings of the importance" of Mohawk. It does not save the Mohawk ritual even if already nearly full bald captain takes it when some crew members opted out of it. Now we come to the interesting part. What was the meaning of this haircut scene at the Wizard? This is a paradox because the Mohawk ITSELF is totally irrelevant and futile whereas its symbolic meaning is VERY important. The Symbolic value in this case is the interpretation of disrespect. Dane accidentally disrespected both Keith and Freddy VERY deeply by not taking the Mohawk. Dane did nothing wrong by not taking the Mohawk because he is entitled to reject. This is the paradox. The end result is that both Keith and Freddy did screw up big time due to misinterpretation of disrespect. Maybe the ultimate reason is their low IQs, megalomaniac sense of superiority or narcissism, who knows. Unfortunately, Dane screwed up as well because he started the fight. However, Dane's reaction was VERY human because before the sucker punch scene, he had taken poo ton of insults and threats from Freddy. Other normal people would have snapped and stabbed to Freddy or cried and begged apology from Freddy. Dane chose to suck it up, work hard and obey orders but he made mistake by starting the fight and giving an alibi to Keith to fire him. Dane would have been presented astonishing tolerance and stamina if he was not started the fight. He would have been the winner and the underdog who showed to the rest of the world how stupid Keith and Freddy are...
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x10003q
Walking Docks For A Job
Posts: 20
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Post by x10003q on Nov 12, 2013 15:15:44 GMT -5
That is an awful lot of analysis from the roughly 10 minutes (out of the 10,080 minutes in the week) of edited video we saw each week from the Wizard. We have no idea what was going on. We do not even know if we saw it in any kind of chronological order or if was even from the same week. We rarely see the crew eating. We never hear their personal conversations while they are working. Dane could have been a nightmare in those other 10,790 minutes per week we don't see. Refusing the haircut is a small window into Dane. His failure to see the importance shows a real lack of understanding of the situation.
Maybe he realized that crabbing was not for him. We do not know.
Keith is running a successful multimillion $$ business and is responsible for multiple lives. If Freddy was such a trouble maker/bully he would not have a job.
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Post by MythoughtsAgain on Nov 14, 2013 12:12:06 GMT -5
That is an awful lot of analysis from the roughly 10 minutes (out of the 10,080 minutes in the week) of edited video we saw each week from the Wizard. We have no idea what was going on. We do not even know if we saw it in any kind of chronological order or if was even from the same week. We rarely see the crew eating. We never hear their personal conversations while they are working. Dane could have been a nightmare in those other 10,790 minutes per week we don't see. Refusing the haircut is a small window into Dane. His failure to see the importance shows a real lack of understanding of the situation. Maybe he realized that crabbing was not for him. We do not know. Keith is running a successful multimillion $$ business and is responsible for multiple lives. If Freddy was such a trouble maker/bully he would not have a job. I agree that Discovery could have been editing the footage in the way which presents Dane as a martyr and Freddy and Keith as bullies. Maybe Dane was an ass mayde he was not. I raged earlier concerning to this bullying because I based everything on what I saw. Anyway, Disco managed to evoke my feelings. Good job Disco, good job... I think Dane could be a good crabber. He seldom whined about the cold, pain, etc. like normal greenhorns usually do. Remember the scene where Keith said to Dane something like this: "you keep your nose in the bait"? This happened after Lenny gave "the friendly F-O" to Mouse. Dane replied to Keith as he was sick and tired all the drama something like this: "I just wanna fish". This tells me that Dane will not give up fishing and I hope he will get a fresh start on a different boat and prove, at least Freddy and Keith wrong. I still base my thoughts to what I saw in these episodes. Keith and Freddy are very good at their jobs. However, Keith seems to have some kind of leadership problem because he rages for every small disobedient from anybody. I know that fishing boats are not democracies but still Keith probably has some kind of issues if you compare him to the other captains. Freddy seems to be an attention *****. He especially enjoy attention. If there is not good attention available bad attention will do (compare this, for instance, to the scene where he jumps to the ocean). These behaviorisms are typical for narcissists. I still base my thoughts just to what I saw in these episodes.
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ceryn
Walking Docks For A Job
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Post by ceryn on Nov 17, 2013 19:07:14 GMT -5
Just one thought, with regard to the comments about Keith effectively threatening Danes life. This is not the case at all, the point is, onboard ship, Keith has the final say, his boat, his rules. If he tells the crew to jump, they ask how high. However, once they step off the boat, he no longer has that authority.
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Post by Craig on Jan 1, 2014 16:40:09 GMT -5
Keith as the captain of the boat was a disgrace. Trying to extort a haircut out of the greenhorn was way out of line and the kid should sue that prick Keith for damages both emotionally and physically....why the hell do the producers of this show not step up and help the kid and tell that moron Keith he has no right. He needs to be taught a lesson and it should cost him big time.
As for the other pathetic idiots that agreed with Keith, these type of people and these type of actions are a reminder of Nazi Germany...have we learned nothing.....Take Keith to court and the agencies that advocate the stopping of this type of blackmail and bulling should take this nonsense to task and represent this young man who was scared to be locked on the boat being told he would not have a job if he did not comply and they would make his life miserable.....this is an open and shut case and without a doubt he would win a court case with substantial damages......
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Post by x7eo on Jan 2, 2014 12:12:03 GMT -5
What if dana kills a waiting freddie after captains threat ?
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Post by andy on Mar 19, 2014 13:16:03 GMT -5
What if dana kills a waiting freddie after captains threat ?
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elguapo
Walking Docks For A Job
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Post by elguapo on Mar 19, 2014 16:15:50 GMT -5
Craig "As for the other pathetic idiots that agreed with Keith, these type of people and these type of actions are a reminder of Nazi Germany".
Godwin's law has been invoked.
(Could not get a link to work. So go to wikipedia and check it out).
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Post by anitalalouise on Mar 20, 2014 19:51:18 GMT -5
lol
I LOVE GODWIN'S LAW.
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Post by doug on Apr 22, 2014 23:38:55 GMT -5
After seeing Freddie's drunken and surly/slurry behavior outside the bar on the first episode of season 10 tonight, I see a real time bomb waiting to go off. While I don't think there needs to be lawsuits or killings or whatever over haircutgate, I can't see how Freddie's actions after being told no were anything other than creepy and psychotic. Dude doesn't want a cut? File it away in the brain and discuss whether you want the loner back next run. But to physically abuse him and gang up on him for something less than total capitulation was very school boy/frat like. Lame, in other words.
Then to see him mistake a conversation not meant for him, refuse to accept the fawning/coddling reaction and explanation, have to involve his captain (with Keith's typical "baddest man on the Bearing Sea" bluster), and still be a surly jerk after everyone went out of their also - drunk way to smooth over what was Freddie's misunderstanding to begin with was just further evidence to me that Freddie has some serious people issues.
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Post by publius on Apr 23, 2014 22:43:18 GMT -5
We all saw last night what a shared ritual can mean to a crew on the sea. It is NOT about harming the recipient. It is about acknowledging that it is a privilege to serve aboard and that those who have been there deserve higher status and respect. last season's greenhorn made it about pride. Well, he saw what happens when the others showed him group pride. The seas is not a gentle place. Stay away if you are not prepared to get severely humbled.
We also saw in the new ep that hazing is about building a crew. It is not about belittling. It was tremendous seeing Sig and the NW crew conspiring. I note that everyone respected and appreciated the poor guy for going through it. It's a great story that he can tell for generations who follow. Oh. EVERYone knows they can trust this guy to follow through when times get tough. He will absolutely have their backs - as they will most definitely have his.
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Post by anitalalouise on Apr 24, 2014 5:46:00 GMT -5
If you want to participate, it is a ritual. If you are forced to participate or face bullying, it is hazing.
And hazing is not about building a crew, it's about establishing a pecking order. It IS belittling.
The difference with the Sunshine/Moonbeam prank is that he wanted to participate. The greenhorn did not, as is his right, and if his work was good so what? I agree with Doug though, Freddie seems to have a pretty big chip on his shoulder and it looks like he's a bully on and off the boat. No wonder Keith loves him.
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Post by Maribegood on Apr 25, 2014 7:20:26 GMT -5
Yeah, that scene outside the bar in the season premiere was extremely disturbing. They were all piss drunk, but it seemed to me that Freddie was the only one itching to put his fist somewhere. Ugly.
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Post by greatlakesgirl on Apr 25, 2014 16:25:01 GMT -5
I agree, that was a disturbing scene. Not sure what lead up to it but Elliot was smart enough to try to diffuse the situation. I wish Keith would ease up the whole "Baddest dude on the Bering Sea" label for Freddy. He is obviously tough and a tad crazy, but I'll bet there are a few bigger badder crazier fishermen than Freddy round those parts.
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Post by crabber on Apr 26, 2014 7:33:23 GMT -5
Greatlakesgirl I agree. It seems we are seeing a whole different side to Freddy we never saw on the CM. Maybe Phil knew how to control Freddy. Makes me kind of sad when I see Freddy doing some of those crazy rituals he used to do on the CM on the Wizard. Oh well, he seem happy on the Wizard.
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Post by greatlakesgirl on Apr 26, 2014 10:30:23 GMT -5
Funny how a couple seasons and a group of editors or producers have changed the way Freddy is perceived. From sweet loyal deckhand with Phil, to a volatile bats**t crazy yet still loyal deckhand to Keith. Freddy does seem happy there. Smart not to be guilted back to the CM by Josh or DC just to make dramatic tv.
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Post by Maribegood on Apr 26, 2014 10:47:27 GMT -5
All the guilt in the world is not going to make up the difference in money that Freddy can make on the Wizard[/] as opposed to the CM. He would have been a fool to go back to the CM and make significantly less money.
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Post by svtubamom on Apr 26, 2014 20:28:41 GMT -5
Greatlakesgirl I agree. It seems we are seeing a whole different side to Freddy we never saw on the CM. Maybe Phil knew how to control Freddy. Makes me kind of sad when I see Freddy doing some of those crazy rituals he used to do on the CM on the Wizard. Oh well, he seem happy on the Wizard. Freddie did them on the CM also. Phil talked about Freddie and his "rituals". Of course Freddie would do them on the Wizard because they are his rituals. It was always talked about and reported about Freddie's "wild" side. Long before Phil's death too. It seems that Freddie is extremely happy on the Wizard. He has a connection with Keith. I believe that Keith is Freddie's son's godfather. We know how DC likes to edit and "slant" things.
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x10003q
Walking Docks For A Job
Posts: 20
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Post by x10003q on Apr 28, 2014 15:36:52 GMT -5
If you want to participate, it is a ritual. If you are forced to participate or face bullying, it is hazing. And hazing is not about building a crew, it's about establishing a pecking order. It IS belittling. The difference with the Sunshine/Moonbeam prank is that he wanted to participate. The greenhorn did not, as is his right, and if his work was good so what? I agree with Doug though, Freddie seems to have a pretty big chip on his shoulder and it looks like he's a bully on and off the boat. No wonder Keith loves him. Sunshine wanted to participate? I think he knew he had to participate. That is a big difference. He had no choice if he wants to be part of the TB team. He is smarter than Dane and/or just wants the job more than Dane. You are not reading this accurately. What you call hazing might be team building to others. I am surprised you did not call the Hillstrands' double cross of Sunshine hazing.
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x10003q
Walking Docks For A Job
Posts: 20
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Post by x10003q on Apr 28, 2014 16:11:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that scene outside the bar in the season premiere was extremely disturbing. They were all piss drunk, but it seemed to me that Freddie was the only one itching to put his fist somewhere. Ugly. I bet when the cameras left they were all laughing their asses off. Freddy didn't crack Dane when he could have - what made you think he was going to "put his fist somewhere"?
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Post by Maribegood on Apr 28, 2014 17:46:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that scene outside the bar in the season premiere was extremely disturbing. They were all piss drunk, but it seemed to me that Freddie was the only one itching to put his fist somewhere. Ugly. I bet when the cameras left they were all laughing their asses off. Freddy didn't crack Dane when he could have - what made you think he was going to "put his fist somewhere"? Crack Dane when he could have? Like on the boat where it would have forced his captain's hand to punish him, because the one precedent a captain is not going to set is flying fists on the boat with no repercussions? Yeah, sure. Fighting off boat and fighting on board are two totally different problems for a captain. You throw your fist on a boat, it can be a firable offense, you throw your fist on land, you are looking to have to be bailed out of jail and court dates. I have seen enough belligerent drunks both inside and outside bars to know when one is looking to start a physical fight. Sorry, it didn't look to me that Keith was in on a big joke at the audience's expense. He saw a problem and was trying to defuse his crewman. A drunken Freddy was the problem he was trying to defuse before he needed money to bail him out of jail. He was drunk and belligerent, not merely playing drunk and belligerent on TV. Freddie's been arrested for assault before. It's pretty obvious that he isn't a happy-go-lucky drunk. Some people just aren't.
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Post by anitalalouise on Apr 29, 2014 5:22:02 GMT -5
If you want to participate, it is a ritual. If you are forced to participate or face bullying, it is hazing. And hazing is not about building a crew, it's about establishing a pecking order. It IS belittling. The difference with the Sunshine/Moonbeam prank is that he wanted to participate. The greenhorn did not, as is his right, and if his work was good so what? I agree with Doug though, Freddie seems to have a pretty big chip on his shoulder and it looks like he's a bully on and off the boat. No wonder Keith loves him. Sunshine wanted to participate? I think he knew he had to participate. That is a big difference. He had no choice if he wants to be part of the TB team. He is smarter than Dane and/or just wants the job more than Dane. You are not reading this accurately. What you call hazing might be team building to others. I am surprised you did not call the Hillstrands' double cross of Sunshine hazing. Yes, Sunshine wanted to participate. I'm starting to wonder if maybe you're not watching a different show than the rest of us are.
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x10003q
Walking Docks For A Job
Posts: 20
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Post by x10003q on Apr 29, 2014 11:34:24 GMT -5
I bet when the cameras left they were all laughing their asses off. Freddy didn't crack Dane when he could have - what made you think he was going to "put his fist somewhere"? Crack Dane when he could have? Like on the boat where it would have forced his captain's hand to punish him, because the one precedent a captain is not going to set is flying fists on the boat with no repercussions? Yeah, sure. Fighting off boat and fighting on board are two totally different problems for a captain. You throw your fist on a boat, it can be a firable offense, you throw your fist on land, you are looking to have to be bailed out of jail and court dates. I have seen enough belligerent drunks both inside and outside bars to know when one is looking to start a physical fight. Sorry, it didn't look to me that Keith was in on a big joke at the audience's expense. He saw a problem and was trying to defuse his crewman. A drunken Freddy was the problem he was trying to defuse before he needed money to bail him out of jail. He was drunk and belligerent, not merely playing drunk and belligerent on TV. Freddie's been arrested for assault before. It's pretty obvious that he isn't a happy-go-lucky drunk. Some people just aren't. Dane attacked Freddy from behind and was swinging at him. Big Bad Scary Freddy's reaction was to bear hug him. Freddy was the one in control. That "scary" scene outside the bar amounted to.......nothing. How many times has Keith had to put up bail for Freddy?
It seems nothing ever became of those misdemeanor assault charges. That happened Dec 16, 2011. Maybe somebody on this board has the answer. Freddy has not been arrested since then.
Freddy has been working like a machine on crab boats for many years. He fit right into the Wizards' veteran crew. If he was such a violent, out of control trouble maker he would not have a job.
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Post by Maribegood on Apr 29, 2014 12:13:05 GMT -5
Obviously when he is on board ship he isn't pissant drunk while doing his job. He was however, obviously drunk and looking for trouble during that sequence on shore. Or are you trying to tell me you never saw anyone become a belligerent drunk who could also perform their work stone cold sober?
It's OK to admit these guys have more than one side to them. Makes them human. None of them, and I mean none of them, are Boy Scouts. That's what makes it compelling to watch.
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Post by lcb on Apr 29, 2014 14:44:55 GMT -5
I don't know where Freddy is from, but it's obvious he can't handle is liquor. I used to work with a guy that was 90% Cherokee. He was the nicest guy in the world...until he went drinking. Then he'd pick a fight and get his behind handed to him...every...single...time. He missed so much work from being beat up my company finally had to let him go. They begged him to say he had a drinking problem, because they would have helped him. They really didn't want to fire him. But his pride won out...and they had to let him go. He died a few years later. I miss 'ole Griff.
When I saw Freddy at the bar, Griff was the first thing that came to mind. On board the ship Freddy gave a bear hug to Dane. But at the bar, Freddy was looking to live up to his reputation.
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Post by lcb on Apr 29, 2014 14:45:59 GMT -5
And I can't believe we're still talking about this!!! :-)
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Post by itsallfake on Apr 30, 2014 4:25:55 GMT -5
Keith is a prime example of someone who is both narcissistic yet completely and utterly devoid of confidence. He's a good actor and should be proud because that's all he's ever wanted...to be on camera. Oh and the whole haircut thing...yeah, terrible leadership and such a bitchy little passive aggressive act from Keith...again.
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Post by junebuggyz on Apr 30, 2014 14:09:01 GMT -5
Maribegood--can we lock down this topic? It's just going in one big circle of 'yes he did''no he didn't'; and 12 pages is plenty of that.
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